it only was topped by the $1.9 billion penalty that hsbc agreed to last week to settle that money laundering probe. >> crazy thing that stock's up. it's leading the exchange there today because people had been expecting maybe a slightly higher fine even than that. three times the amount. it was supposedly taking place for five to seven years, 30 to 40 traders have left. pretty pervasive. >> i wonder how much they -- they make money or lose money after -- >> after all was said and done. $1.5 billion. >> probably lost. they did well. the libor stuff, if you can set rates -- >> well, and the crazy thing, it affects so many different instruments and so many people and so many businesses. >> right. >> i don't know that you could ever actually figure out all the implications from it. >> right. from everyone. and in a related story this morning, the f.t. reports that the new york fed was warned as early as mid 2008 that banks might have been misrepresenting their libor borrowing rate. that was to aid their own trading positions. and that date is much earlier than previously known. according to the